Huntarr endgame raiding specs

[Votan]

Lo fellow hunters,

I was wondering what the preferred raiding spec is for endgame (BWL/AQ40/etc) raiding is. I'm currently using a 5/31/15 spec for raiding; the imp AotH procs a lot and its a nice dps boost for a slow crossbow. The TSA is to help the rest of the raid though I find that its not used that often.. its very situational that people actually benefit from it as its next to useless for anyone bar rogues, warriors and other hunters.

Would it be advisable to switch to the default 0/21/30 spec with about 370agi unbuffed (Orcs aren't especially agile)? I'm using the Xbow of Smiting as a ranged weapon.

[Dukey]

you need 3 points in spiritual healing to be a good hunter

[Garadom]

Wish there was some kind of Talentspec which increases bow/xbow/gun skill,
Like Warriors have....

Well, I Do Think 5/31/15 is good...

[Poag]

Build in sig i have been using since hunter patch.

Moffle is again trying out the Surv spec line, doens't appear too have boosted dps by that much if at all tho...but i'm sure he'll make some comment on it shortl :)

[stroodle]

Wish there was some kind of Talentspec which increases bow/xbow/gun skill,
Like Warriors have....

Well, I Do Think 5/31/15 is good...

since when do we have a talent that increase our weapon skill O_o

need plx.

[Ecco]

since when do we have a talent that increase our weapon skill O_o

need plx.


Confused with rogues, prolly.

[Nahoom]

I'm currently using a 5/31/15 spec for raiding;

This is the best spec for raiding, stable high damage, but your weapon doesn't reflect that. I find a 0/21/30 spec perfect myself, alot of crit, some extra crowd control with entrapment and Imp Conc and of course Imp Feign for less resists.
My current build (http://www.wowhead.com/talent/?VZtVohtZIV0VoGhx)

[Moonflower]

ok as poag said i will now make a comment :) There is like only 2 viable specs for raiding and thats 5/31/15 or 21/30 . I used to have 5/31/15 and it's great. I'm now 21/30 thou . If you don't have uber gear with loads of agility 21/30 isn't very viable as you would lose to much dps and the crit and AP wouldn't make up for it.

In raids buffed with Blessing of kings,Motw and i usually use a greater agility pot i got 705 agi atm. I still got lower base dps than with 5/31/15 but more crit and loads more AP so when i crit i hit hard :)

But well, 5/31/15 is probably the best raidspec for most hunters. 21/30 is so very very gear dependant :)

http://www.wowhead.com/talent/?VZqVohtZILVVo0ux <--My current build as it is a bit different from Nahooms :)

[McDark]

Confused with rogues, prolly.
since when do we have a talent that increase our weapon skill O_o

need plx.

[Nahoom]

21/30 is so very very gear dependant :)

And that's why it will keep getting better than Trueshot with every tier, if Blizz don't decide to go AP + Crit gear for some reason. Also, what's with all the melee nubflower? :P

[Ecco]

since when do we have a talent that increase our weapon skill O_o

need plx.

Tought dual wield specialization goes for both swords, confused by it's icon.
Sword, mace and fistweapon specialization in a way. But warriors have that too. My bad.

[Hildaa]

Confused with shamans.

Fixed. :p. . . . . .

[Moonflower]

And that's why it will keep getting better than Trueshot with every tier, if Blizz don't decide to go AP + Crit gear for some reason. Also, what's with all the melee nubflower? :P

Well, I always pull aggro :) Parry and then counterattack=awesome :p

[Minaith]

Well most have been said allready. The survival spec 0/21/30, is (as so many said) very gear dependant. My spec is a variant of the 0/31/20 spec, 4/34,13.
Like one of u guys said, the Imp. AotH gives a major DPS boots, and I have also found it very usefull... :p

My spec can also be seen here: http://wow.allakhazam.com/profile.html?384695

[Nahoom]

Well, I always pull aggro :) Parry and then counterattack=awesome :p

I'm sure that's awesome on raid bosses ;)

[Hildaa]

I'm sure that's awesome on raid bosses ;)

Moffel wants to try tanking Nef at some point. Go figure. :roll:

[Moonflower]

I already started my tanking career :) Tanked an add on sulfuron, Flamewalker healers (actually i tanked 2, 1 after eachother cause a tank died) :) It worked great. No one could pull aggro off me and i dodged like 50%+ of the hits :)

[salamando]

I use 5/31/15, since i like raiding and i get a hardon when iAoTH proccs and i turn on Rapid Fire and Berserking.

Please Blizzard, give me more haste. I love it. Thanks.

PS: Weaponskill is kinda useless for us, since ranged attack dont have glancing blows. >.< (No use stacking weaponskill since to avoid glancing blows due to level difference, since we got none)

[Nahoom]

PS: Weaponskill is kinda useless for us, since ranged attack dont have glancing blows. >.< (No use stacking weaponskill since to avoid glancing blows due to level difference, since we got none)

It still affects hit and crit.


Each point of weapon skill you have over your opponent's defense increases your chances to crit and hit by 0.04%, and reduces your opponent's chance to block, parry, and dodge by 0.04%. Effectively you can consider it to be the inverse of the defense skill.
Link (http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Weapon_Skill)

[salamando]

In a 0.20% kinda way, if we use troll racial as a base and say the troll hunter is wearing a bow. With mc epics, +1% crit is roughly 20-30ap. Thats about 5ap. 2.5agi. Its good for the +hit only, since we need like +9%hit not to miss lvl63 mobs or something.

Fuck, how much is that? It aint much.

[quote]For example, against mobs three levels above your own, with 300 weapon skill approximately 40% of your swings will be glancing blows, and the damage for those will on average be reduced by 30%. With +5 weapon skill, you will see the same amount of glancing blows (40%), but only 15% damage reduction. With +10 weapon skill, the damage reduction becomes negligible.[/quote}

Weapon skill for melee classes is actually worth something. For ranged, nada. It really should be a better benefit for having more skill with the weapon than

Im not taking numbers out of my ass, I'm actually pretty sure i read them, somewhere...

[Silv]

13/37 build. Now that's just overpowered! Nref.Nfer.Nfre.Nefr.

Fear my boredom, pitiful mortals.

[Votan]

Well I currently have a mix of 6/8 GS with 1 piece DS & the AB exalted shoulders. Agi is about 376 unbuffed with my current spec. Only recently have we seen an increase in hunter drops in BWL.. sadly Ony and Rag are performing sub par :-/
I reckon i'll stay with the 5/31/15 spec for the time being as I'd like to crack the 400agi unbuffed ere I switch to the 0/21/30 spec. Orcs cant compare to NE's in terms of agi as they're too far ahead due to the racial bonus.
The imp AotH makes me drool every time.. sometimes I even forget to flick on rapidfire :> Its fun machinegunning with a slow crossbow :D

My xbow speed is currently 2.96.. 2.27 with imp AotH (225 dps).. those speed boosts really make a lot of difference though getting nice crits also has me ooo'ing like an owl :p Damn choices.. gib level 70 already so I can get a 5/26/30 spec ;)

[Nahoom]

Orcs cant compare to NE's in terms of agi as they're too far ahead due to the racial bonus.

If it's the base stats at level 60 you mean, it's only 8 agility, not really what I would call "too far ahead". ;)

[Votan]

lol.. my misinterpretation :o

[Moonflower]

I had 500+ Agi unbuffed with marksman spec before i went 21/30 so..I'm imba ^_-

[Poag]

Your not imba :P your just in T2 and have mos tof the best gear available.


Eg i have none of the best gear available and i have 476 unbuffed..aint that hard :)

[Kutz]

Poag you have a CTS.. a friggin fucking CTS >< That's not imba, that's.. that's.. that's fucken horrible.. Arrrghhghhhhhhh the waste is killing meeeee!!!

[Hallian]

No, Hunters with Ashkandi that's fun to watch! :P

[Tiberian]

Poag you have a CTS.. a friggin fucking CTS >< That's not imba, that's.. that's.. that's fucken horrible.. Arrrghhghhhhhhh the waste is killing meeeee!!!

Hahahahahaha. You are so mean! MEAN

[Poag]

Poag you have a CTS.. a friggin fucking CTS >< That's not imba, that's.. that's.. that's fucken horrible.. Arrrghhghhhhhhh the waste is killing meeeee!!!


I do have a CTS yes :)

However if you check ym belt, note its a shammy belt, not a single peice of agi on it. If i had the DS belt there for example [will do eventually..but getting others in full sets is more important for me atm] i'd have broken the 500 unbuffed agi mark along time ago, but no..still have Therazine, untill we get Swift his belt, then i can pikcup mine :)


Selfless to the last, but thats me :)

[Poag]

Oh and out meleeing warriors wiht CTS = fun...can almost see the look on there faces as raptor crits for 1000 dmg :lol:

Just need to fix up my offhander and i'll be sorted, Dooms Edge if you are wondering :)

[Freja]

/roar :)

hutnars will rule the world!..

[Votan]

My mind is definitely not up to its task today.. what on earth is CTS?

[sildiara]

My mind is definitely not up to its task today.. what on earth is CTS?
http://www.thottbot.com/?i=44357

Not quite my weapon of choice. Although, I have a Draconic Avenger. Perfect for my poser needs.

[Sioux]

Rogue sword.

Hands off.

:P

[Poag]

CTS is a nice weapon for me.

I'm trying too move away from +crit on weapons and got for pure agility bonus with stamina and strenght thrown in.

Thus CTS is perfect for that line of pogression for me :)

[Votan]

Hmm I'd rather walk around with Zin'rokh.. its actually usefull as well :D

Doom's Edge is my axe of choice.. possibly combined with the CC rep axe :)

Hunters dont really need str though :p

[Sioux]

Seeing that the DPS and base damage on a weapon for huntards doesn't make a world of difference, isn't the Barberous Blade more suitable for huntards than the CTS?

[Poag]

Depends if it actually drops when i'm there or not :)


Been waiting for a BB or CHT for a while, no dice, CTS dropped...Dice

[Banzia]

At the moment im just using the 0/31/20 temp. I get nice damage and i seem to crit quite alot too.

When i was doing the whole pvp rank grind i was survival spec (counter attack ftw!) I plan on going back to that when my Armor gets its upgrade in patch 1.11 (woot can't wait!)

As for melee weapon i got the BB with +25 agi enchant, i love it but im looking at changing to duel weild soon

[Kutz]

I do have a CTS yes :)

However if you check ym belt, note its a shammy belt, not a single peice of agi on it. If i had the DS belt there for example [will do eventually..but getting others in full sets is more important for me atm] i'd have broken the 500 unbuffed agi mark along time ago, but no..still have Therazine, untill we get Swift his belt, then i can pikcup mine :)


Selfless to the last, but thats me :) Hmm. Well I don't agree with Therazane beeing a shammy belt alone, for a Marksman Huntard you get more AP than from DS, and it has a hellalot of STA which you might lack bits and pieces of without Survivalist.

Anywho, I feel you contradict yourself a bit here dear Poglet... If you prio other hunters getting full DS before yourself, how on earth can you snatch any rogue or warriors wet dream by taking a CTS when actually, both Doom's Edge and Scythe of the Unseen Path are better pure statswise when talking Dual Agi-babies.

Bare with me here, I come from different worlds even tho I have raided with you a couple of times now. In TD we have restrictions on weapons like that for our melee classes, and I know you simply go with more DKP > less DKP, which I prefer more tbh.

Hmm.. this sounded so aggressive even tho my intentions are nothing but curiosity :p Exxxplwqin 2 me plz Poazor.

[Lyara]

Hmm.. this sounded so aggressive even tho my intentions are nothing but curiosity :p Exxxplwqin 2 me plz Poazor.

Its simple really, he saves DKP so he can take the weapons, then when all the other hunters have their loots he can just take the class drops regardless of how much DKP he has cause its defaulted to him.

POAG, I SEE THRU YOUR SNEEKY PLANZ!!!11

-Lyara

[Poag]

Lyara wins a prize :)

Although i am taking thee AQ set whcih does cost, gotta beat chas on dkp :D

Now lyara send me and idol of strife, 5 bronze scarabs and 5 ivory please...helm is mine :)

[Kutz]

Lyara wins a prize :)

Although i am taking thee AQ set whcih does cost, gotta beat chas on dkp :D

Now lyara send me and idol of strife, 5 bronze scarabs and 5 ivory please...helm is mine :) A cunning plan my leige. :) I stand by my point tho, I wouldn't have swapped my good ol'Bone Slicing Hatchet for the DKP I'd have to spend on a CTS.

Rrrrrant overs..

On topic instead!
My spec have changed so many times I don't even know what's best anymore. However, my best times in Alterac Valley was when I got full Giantstalker and the Smiting Xbow around the same time. I went from cuddly survival to something like this (http://www.wowhead.com/talent/?VxZgVohthtIm0V). With the AV-buff I had my first orgasm ever in a Battleground when I got 3x2600 Multi-Shot close to the Stonehearth Bunker. Good times.

However, at Chromaggus I then got my first heart attack when my Tranq shot missed about 5 times during one try. Instead of waiting for a Drake Fang Talisman which never drops, I tried out a new thang (http://www.wowhead.com/talent/?VZgVohthtIm0V0G) which at least I had never seen before. The other hunters mocked me and what they called my foolishness, but hey, I didn't miss no more tranqs after that, and I still had my orgasms in Alterac Valley ;)
However, as soon as I got the crossbow I could stop my DKP-saving spree and start snatching Dragonstalker and other goodies. But oh how pointless Barrage felt without full Giantstalker. So with more agility on gear and less to gain in the Marksman Tree, I went back to what is my current (http://www.wowhead.com/talent/?VZtVohtZIV0VoGhx) build as well.

And I tell you this. Once you go Entrapment, you never go back.

[sildiara]

And I tell you this. Once you go Entrapment, you never go back.

Except when you get tired of seing "Another action is in progress!" spammed over your screen.

[Kutz]

Except when you get tired of seing "Another action is in progress!" spammed over your screen. Funny you mention that dear, in fact, that started happen to me just a week ago, before that I never had any problems with it. Now, it is indeed ticking me straight off, and caused a fair few unneccesary deaths to a couple of hunters trying to leetly two-man stuff :p It's however still way too good not to have when you're smacking around with a Survival build imho.

[Hildaa]

Funny you mention that dear, in fact, that started happen to me just a week ago, before that I never had any problems with it. Now, it is indeed ticking me straight off, and caused a fair few unneccesary deaths to a couple of hunters trying to leetly two-man stuff :p It's however still way too good not to have when you're smacking around with a Survival build imho.

OH! Salutations and welcome, brother! ;)

[Kutz]

OH! Salutations and welcome, brother! ;)
You didn't love me before? :frown:

[Hildaa]

You didn't love me before? :frown:

I did! I do!

But I'm so happy for you; not everyone gets to experience the joy of "OTHER ACTION IN PROGRESS THNX 4 TEH MONEHS", see!

[Kutz]

I did! I do!

But I'm so happy for you; not everyone gets to experience the joy of "OTHER ACTION IN PROGRESS THNX 4 TEH MONEHS", see!
Bluuur.. Mokey. Tear duct dry again.

And flocking Healdoh, what's your huntarr endgame raiding spec? :shock:

[Hildaa]

Bluuur.. Mokey. Tear duct dry again.

And flocking Healdoh, what's your huntarr endgame raiding spec? :shock:

Umm... 5/31/15 MS *cough* err, fury *cough* err, TS hybrid build or something like that. Don't remember really. :p

[Swiftarrow]

Tnx for looking out for me Poag, but the belt was my very first part:P

But Dragonrealm needs it now :P

[Poag]

Ah couldn't remeber who still needed it, was either you or Drago, just remebered Male, night elf, green hair...that was about it :)


Bakc on track, Lyara isn't actually on track, there was deal between hunters thati'd pass on the BWL set peices in return for the AQ peices, fair deal :)


Weapons however are not part of a set..ergo...free game.

I'm also goign for agility over crit. Last nights AQ Twin Emps kill i had some 1647 AP 600 agility and a dps on the char sheet of nigh on 220 DPS.

Buffed too the eyeballs, but still had stats that would make grown taurens weep :)

[Votan]

I just need some more AP/Agi or preferably DS helm & legs for the nice 3 part bonus :D Ideally I'd get a hold of Zin'rokh and slap on a +25 agi enchant. I'd finally beat my current 1100ish RAP :(

Zin = teh pwn for MM build :-)

1600+ RAP.. thats sick >.<


Dammit all this talk of gaming is making me want to go and play instea dof sitting in the pffice being bored!

[Hallian]

1600+ RAP.. thats sick >.<
Blessing of Kings ftw! :P

zOmg 1600 posts!!!!111

[Poag]

Blessing of Kings, Skorpok Assay and a Mongoose Pot.


Yeah seriosu over buffage, but on TE i like seeing full pages of 1200+ dmg auto shot crits :)

[Nahoom]

Ideally I'd get a hold of Zin'rokh and slap on a +25 agi enchant.

You're making a grown tauren weep. If you can get Zin there's nothing stopping you from getting the Fang of the Faceless (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=51696) and Warblade of the Hakkari main hand (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=51839) combo. 116 ap and 2.6 crit vs. the measly 122 and 0.5 crit on the two-hander. And that's *without* Lightning Reflexes.

[Votan]

I'll try should they drop :)

[sildiara]

I dont really get why people go agility over atk and crit.
Take your average 28 atk/1crit weapon, with 15 agility.
Compare with some dooms edge style type of thing with 15 agility.

crit weapon gives 58 atk and 1.28% crit
agi weapon gives 60 atk and 0.58% crit

Now, if you're LR specced this is how it looks:

crit weapon gives 63 atk (rounded up) and 1.33% crit
agi weapon gives 71 atk and 0.67% crit

Last time I looked, 0.66% crit > 8 atk. Am I missing something here?

[Hallian]

You're ignoring dodge chance, but purely PvE I'd say you're right.

Sherman's opinion though. ;)

[Kutz]

I dont really get why people go agility over atk and crit.
Take your average 28 atk/1crit weapon, with 15 agility.
Compare with some dooms edge style type of thing with 15 agility.

crit weapon gives 58 atk and 1.28% crit
agi weapon gives 60 atk and 0.58% crit

Now, if you're LR specced this is how it looks:

crit weapon gives 63 atk (rounded up) and 1.33% crit
agi weapon gives 71 atk and 0.67% crit

Last time I looked, 0.66% crit > 8 atk. Am I missing something here? Well. There comes a point when the agi-items become so good that.. well look at my little not too distant dream gear (http://ctprofiles.net/70945), "AQ40 Vision". Sure, it includes exchanging most of my current items, but they are all from AQ40 and "worse". No silly Naxx-jerkment involved.

I've tried to put together shit with Barbed Choker (http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=21664) (which as a side note, imo, is just a joke, Eye of Hakkar (http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=19856) anyone?) and Scaled Sand Reaver Leggings (http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=21651) and fancy shmancy Silithid Claw (http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=21673) and God knows what, but it doesn't get much better than that. Pre 1.11 that is :redface:

AP/Crit-gear haven't recieved many improvements, but Agi-eplix goes all the way baby.

Edit: Bolding my whole point. And changing smileys. :)

[Hildaa]

You're ignoring dodge chance, but purely PvE I'd say you're right.

Sherman's opinion though. ;)

Not smrt. WHAM, free(well, 5 rage, bargain) 1k crit. learn2parry.

[Kutz]

Not smrt. WHAM, free(well, 5 rage, bargain) 1k crit. learn2parry.
Bwahaha.. Hildoh.. The dodge is against rogues and pallypoopers, you warriors never even get in melee range ;) To any class. At all.. Bwahahaha. Hah. Baaahahahahaha!

[Hallian]

Not smrt. WHAM, free(well, 5 rage, bargain) 1k crit. learn2parry.
Parry doesn't increase with more agility noob!

[Hildaa]

Parry doesn't increase with more agility noob!

It doesn't? :???: omg that sooks

/ignore klutz :mad:

[Gilthoniel]

I'll stay with my 5/35/12 ( i think? =P) build till I get about 450 agi unbuffed with it. Then I'll go over to an agi build.

[Votan]

So what would you lot consider the most efficient weapon (combination) for dual wielding and for 2Handers? If you want you could specify whats best for a MM based and LR based builds :)

For a 2H LR based build Typhoon would do nicely (mm parry) or possibly Barb of the Sandreaver.

[sildiara]

"Best" is such an inprecise term.
For pvp, you might want a good 2hander like the barb of the sand reaver (or lok'delar for that matter). Something which adds to your ranged damage capabilities but still allows you to do huge melee hits. And with stamina bonuses. With savage strikes, you'll have ~45% crit chance on raptor strike, and crits over 1k on cloth is rather neat.

But for pve.. Stamina plays a lesser role, but it's not that useless. You wont melee. Therefor two weak hitting 1handers with the best bonuses possible will do fine.
Myself I'd go for Silithid Claw and Fang of the Faceless. Or, if I want to dream even more, Blessed Qiraji Pugio.

[Poag]

I have to jump on this one.

I get 1k regular raptor crits with CTS and thats a dual wield weapon.

Manslayer of the Quiarji i get 1k vs mail pretty easily and crits for a fair bit more, add in raptor and it shoot sup to non crit of 800 dmg and a crit of dead mage.


Sorry just a quick nto ethere as i was reading and am at work.

[Splinter]

Well, I always pull aggro :) Parry and then counterattack=awesome :p

Get improved feign death plxkthx :D

[Votan]

Modified the post a bit ;)

Sta does play a bit of a lesser role when compared to PvP but i'd still say its very important. There are plenty of tasks where having some extra hp makes all the difference; just look at Razorgore (kiting), Vael (debuff), Chromaggus (debuffs) & Neffie (phase 1 kiting may be required) not to mention those damn warlocks in BWL and of course the depression room.

Ideally you wont melee, sometimes it just can't be avoided :) I tend to shy away from too much +crit% gear as the x-bow of smiting has a tendency to produce hefty crits and FD isn't 100% reliant even with talents. Even now with my mm spec I wait a bit longer before opening fire just to be on the safe side :) Murphy's Law is omnipresent.. especially on raiding nights :D

[Kutz]

Myself I'd go for Silithid Claw and Fang of the Faceless. Or, if I want to dream even more, Blessed Qiraji Pugio. Sometimes you upset me sexy Sild :-? But the Pugio? Why in the world? By the time that becomes available to you, a Drake Fang Talisman and Prestor's Talisman of Connivery should've dropped, and hopefully, have been looted by you. You already use both Signet Ring of the Bronze Dragonflight and Don Julio's Band iirc. Why in the world would you want a, in this case, crappy Pugio? It's worse than the Core Hound Tooth even. (oh and btw, update your CT_Profile plx ;))


So what would you lot consider the most efficient weapon (combination) for dual wielding and for 2Handers? If you want you could specify whats best for a MM based and LR based builds I personally care less about efficiency than comfort. What you feel safe and strong with is a very personal thing, so there is more to it than numbers.

My Opinion: I cannot stress the importance of agility enough for a LR-build. Let's make a fast comparison. I won't count sta/int/spi/%hit, would get too complicated. Soo, only ap/crit. And looks.)

Silithid Claw (+15agi) + Fang of the Faceless (+15agi) vs. Barb of the Sand Reaver (+25agi)
MM: 1.32%crit vs. 14ap
LR: 1.22%crit vs. 24.8ap

However, weapons are a bit different than other itemslots. Differences are way bigger than for example these two duels coming up:

Barbed Choker vs. Prestor's Talisman of Connivery
MM: 0.43%crit vs. 16ap
LR: 0.35%crit vs. 25ap

Scaled Sand Reaver Leggings vs. Dragonstalker Legguards
MM: 0.42%crit vs. LOOKS!
LR: 0.33%crit vs. 9.3ap

Don't forget that with Killer Instinct you have 3% crit just like that, woosh, given to you. AP/crit items are perfect for a Marksman Build. Clean agi-items are perfect for a LR-build. I do use Warblade of Hakkari MH and CHT myself, but will (if a fat bull isn't around) upgrade to a Barb of the Sand Reaver as soon as that boiled brötchen drops it.

Now, I know Sildiara could slap me with her bow over the back of my fingers telling me that anyone can see that 1.22%crit is worth way more than 24.8ap, and yes, I'd have to agree. But you have to look at the big picture. Upgrades comes in portions. Every bit counts. You going LR? Then you better stack up on the agility, to make it worthwile. It will reward you in the end.

But guess what? My one-handers will never turn into Nexus Crystals, or Gold for that matter. ;-)

Edit: Spellingspellingspellingemotions

[Slakkative]

The Blessed Qiraji Pugio:

1% crit
1% hit
18 ap
7(?) stam

So it's better then CHT actually, although im not sure what the hit % limit is...

[Votan]

Well for me I currently use the AV quest reward polearm for raiding purposes, its fairly cheap to repair and it provided a needed sta boost when compared to Typhoon. Typhoon was awesome for LR based spec (parry, det, CA) but I've since changed my spec to be more raid oriented. With that in mind I opted for Zin since the AP & Sta was what I essentially wanted (just need to get it to drop). I have toyed with the idea of getting 2 AP/Crit weapons but then I'd loose quite a bit in the hitpoint department, i'd also have to keep close tabs on my shots.. threatmeters arent 100% reliable ;)
Further down the line once we start actively doing AQ40 or Naxx i'll be sure to keep my eyes open for the 2 polearms that can drop there. Not to mention (if its true that they modified the speed) the 3.40 speed crossbow from Naxx.

I agree with Kutz that you really need to go for the agi items if you're thinking of going LR :)

[Kutz]

The Blessed Qiraji Pugio:

1% crit
1% hit
18 ap
7(?) stam

So it's better then CHT actually, although im not sure what the hit % limit is... The Pugio got 2 less ap, 2 less stam and 1 superfluous hit%. I stand by my statement in the case I described ;)

[Trainspotter]

I see some interesting stuf in here :)
I've been playing with builds a bit aswell over the past few months and got stuck on your basic MM build for now. As we're progressing through BWL, I've been playing with the idea of taking the LR road. Therefor I picked up this (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=42414) weapon yesterday. (maybe also cause I've yet to see FotF or WotH drop :) ) It's one step closer to the amount of agility required for LR to be truly more effective then MM. I do need another 1hander to replace my trusty ol' Barbarous blade! Sentimental vallue there :) Therefor I'm getting up my rep with CC for the Scythe, but knowing me it'll take forever.

I still got a while to go before LR becomes more interesting for me then MM, as I rather not see my DPS vallue drop too much, even though it adds more to the Crit chance :)

[Slakkative]

The Pugio got 2 less ap, 2 less stam and 1 superfluous hit%. I stand by my statement in the case I described ;)


Depends on what your current +hit % is, if you dont have that much +hit% yet I'd certainly use the pugio over CHT.. as of now for me.. no I dont think I would.

[sildiara]

Getting more +hit% is certainly not bad, as it allows you to replace other hit% stuff with crit. Survival hunters might not see it as a problem, though.

[Votan]

Aye, survival hunters have the 3% extra to hit from talents which gives them more leeway. Marksman hunters do need some extra to hit %; I personally do notice more misses then I'd like to see ;)

Band of accuria can solve that problem quite nicely.

[sildiara]

I'm a 5/31/15 hunter, and when I picked up the dragonstalker gaunts, I could see a pretty big difference in misses compared to the GS gaunts (ds has 1% crit and gs has 2% hit).

So I'm considering getting a biznicks accurascope made, but it's pretty darn expensive. And I hope I'm not gonna use Rhok'delar forever. Ashjretul has yet to drop for us, and the first 2-3 times it drops it'll cost astronomic amounts of dkp. And theoretically rhok'delar does more damage on a 10 sec rotation than ashj. Running a 9 sec aimed shot rotation with ashj will do more than a 10 sec multishot rotation on rhok, though. Theory-schmeory. Ashj is no doubt the better pvp weapon, but I dont pvp much anymore on this character.

Dream weapon is, of course, the nerubian slavemaker from Naxx, but I hear it's a Kel'thuzad drop... :(

[Aryzel]

I think i'm near unique on the server as being a raiding Beast Master hunter.

In ZG/AQ20/MC myself and Seeker easily outdamage the other hunters not using their pet.

In BWL, i'm still gathering data, but so far looks like i at least match the other hunters.

Now, before ye start burning me at a stake, let me say the Marks/ SV IS BETTER for raiding. However, BM is a close enough that any sizeable differences is due to the player not the spec. Also note that the maximum difference between a BM and Marks/SV hunter, with same equipment and excluding pets is 15%, this is maths. As BM hunters do use their pets the 15% is closed quite easily. A few % difference (at worse in theory, in reality I usually at least match) is worth it for playing the way i enjoy.

Have a play around with the excel sheet below to see the way equipment and spec effects you and your pets dps.

http://www.geocities.com/aryzel2/Hunter_Pet.xls

[Oakleh]

The Blessed Qiraji Pugio:

1% crit
1% hit
18 ap
7(?) stam

So it's better then CHT actually, although im not sure what the hit % limit is...

+hit on ranged is capped at roughly 7% - This does vary roughly, but if your at +10% hit you should miss something like 1 in a million shots.

[Nereid]

No that the novelty of collecting set items has worn off since I got my 8/8 GS I think I'm gonna start becoming an agi whore.
Ossirian's Binding, Prestor's Talisman etc.

Atm I'm 5/31/15 but once I get enough raw agi I'm going 21/30 with a vengeance :p

[Nereid]

+hit on ranged is capped at roughly 7% - This does vary roughly, but if your at +10% hit you should miss something like 1 in a million shots.

For Hunter's it's +9.

If you have the surefooted talent 3/3 then you only need +6 from items.

Update - I respecced to 21/30 when I reached over 430 agi unbuffed and have seen a noticeable increase in my DPS, mainly through my increased crit chance, autoshots remain about the same and I got some more 1 on 1 survivability with deterrance and counterattack. the respec netted me 508 agi unbuffed which goes to 610 when raid buffed and with a mongoose pot and LOTP I get a 36% crit chance on ranged attacks and 1707 RAP. As soon as I get some Libram enchants I expect this to rise even further, plus I'm only at 3 DS/5 GS so far (Did get the Nef necklace though :smile: BLING!)

[Amrasellion]

if u only wanna max your raid dps output, 21/30 wont be better than 5/31/15 until u have around 600 agi unbuffed :smile: actually anything less than 450 (aprox) agi unbuffed will mean less dps than with a 5/31/15 spec. Get full t3 and we can start talking about a respec. For pvp purposes 21/30 can be better tho, especially if u wanna be able to defend yourself in melee (savage strikes, parry etc).

edit: this is based on experiences and not on calculations, so numbers may not be exact

Concerning +hit: I have atm +9 hit and my hit% is according to CombatStats 99%... when i used +6% hit i had 98.7% hit. So +hit is imo good up to +5 or 6, but after thats it should never be taken over pure AP or agi (hit should never be taken over crit)

[Oakleh]

[QUOTE=Amrasellion;73062]if u only wanna max your raid dps output, 21/30 wont be better than 5/31/15 until u have around 600 agi unbuffed :smile: actually anything less than 450 (aprox) agi unbuffed will mean less dps than with a 5/31/15 spec. [QUOTE]

Actually at around 400 unbuffed agi it becomes more damaging over time to use a 21/30 spec. Pure autoshot dps will be roughly the same.

However it very much depends on the cycles you use, if your an aimed/multi cycle hunter 21/30 is by far more damaging, similar damage on shots, but increased crit chance.
However a arcane/multi hunter may find the 5/31/15 more beneficial. - Purely for barrage talents, and possibility of imp. arcane shot.
I have never used that cycle or that spec so cannot speak for them, but from what I gather speaking to fellow hunters, that is what I understand from it.

[Adriel]

What would you guys recommend for a hunter with the following stats (of top of my head):

4 DS + 3 GS - ZG enchants on legs, head and shoulders. ZG necklace, cloak and ring from CC rep and Band of accuria

Unbuffed Agil around 435ish (memory is poo!)
I have +8% to hit and +8% to crit chance

I'm currently 5/31/15 but have been thinking and wondering about going 21/30 - just not sure whether i will notice the difference yet or whether to wait.

[Votan]

Well you'll gain some crit % & hit% but you'll loose the tsa for th group. It kinda depends if you're going to focus on raiding or pvping. For raiding the 5/31/15 is probably better, for pvping 21/30.

I went from 5/31/15 -> 0/21/30 with an almost pure pvp spec since i restarted pvping in earnest when i'm not raiding. For raid dps its not that much of a difference for me though my group does loose out on the TSA.

[Poag]

I'm still ambiguous on the bonus of Surv Spec over Marks at high Agi rates.

In raids, and i do mean pure dps raids, not the pull run shoot raids, I still out DPS our Surv hunters, dispite not being in a T2 set.

I have 6 T2 peices, 3 DS 3 AQ
1 T1 peice, GS Chest
1 Random peice of Therazens Belt from Nefe
Rok bow, raid uber buffed i get some 565 Agi 1519 Atk Power
I do however crit for 2800 in raids and 3400 in PvP, often

Stick me with a Feral Druid and the DM meters go nuts, and ofc TS Aura for the Rogues is always a good raid DPS boost :)

[sildiara]

Theorycrafting about damage cycles with different specs (http://forums-en.wow-europe.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-hunter-en&t=190148&p=1&tmp=1#post190148)

[Banzia]

since the pvp armor got buffed i've tried both survival and marksman spec and i find the marksman to be alot better for damage, Think i got like 460ish agi unbuffed and like 1465 ap as MM. i'm still with my BB as melee weapon and hopefully get that changed soon, i use the rok bow.

Maybe i'll try out the agi again when i get over 500 agi unbuffed, but for now i'm very happy with my marksman

[Slakkative]

I have 6 T2 peices, 3 DS 3 AQ
1 T1 peice, GS Chest
1 Random peice of Therazens Belt from Nefe
Rok bow, raid uber buffed i get some 565 Agi 1519 Atk Power
I do however crit for 2800 in raids and 3400 in PvP, often

Stick me with a Feral Druid and the DM meters go nuts, and ofc TS Aura for the Rogues is always a good raid DPS boost :)

Rofl, I really wonder on what bosses or classes you're shooting then and what buffs you've got

[Poag]

Rofl, I really wonder on what bosses or classes you're shooting then and what buffs you've got



PvP as well all know, clothies give the best crits, but never underestimate the chances of big crits on healy druids..also good.


Anub Defenders in AQ40 also seem to give the better crits of 2.7-2.8k at best, while the Risen Deathgaurds in Naxx also seem pretty vulnerable to 2.5k+ crits

[Poag]

Oh boss wise, Ony seems to give the "best" while bosses like drakes and Broodlord come a close second with slightly more dmg mitigation.

I havn't rly taken note in Naxx of Boss crits, only trash :)

[Slakkative]

Oh boss wise, Ony seems to give the "best" while bosses like drakes and Broodlord come a close second with slightly more dmg mitigation.

I havn't rly taken note in Naxx of Boss crits, only trash :)

What RAP and Buffs you've got?

[Poag]

Rap regular raid buffin 1519

Thats BoK MOTW Mongo Pot [or Greater Agi if its trash]

If i'm going nuts, Skorpok aswell, i have regs for 10 in my bank as "stock", but i ca't remeber my RAP with the Skorpok aswell...but then i havn't used them in a fair while due to the nerf.

But generally just raid buffs and a Mongo/Agi pot

[Poag]

I think i have a 3122 crit from AV recently in a screen shot, i will have to check what i have in my screenshots folder, i dont generally screeny them, but this was on drekthar so was nice :)

[Slakkative]

Ill keep an eye on my own crits, I should even crit higher then you then although I rarely see them >.>.

[Poag]

Well technially Moffle [full T2 Chrom Xbow] Amra [Full T2 Chrom Xbow] should both crit higher than me.

yet dont...which is weird

This was one of the reasons i installed critline a while back to keep a track of it.

[Slakkative]

Mainly in some t1 epics, and some t2-t3 quality random epics myself, using a MM build so I should crit atleast equal to you (chrom xbow aswell) but i dont i think

[Poag]

Dont forget the Xbow is faster, thus crits more often for less.

While the stringer is slower, thus crits less often for mroe.

Rok is between the two.

So your dmg over a time period, taken an even balence of crits etc...would be the same as mine, except you'd expend more arrows doing it than the slower bow.

Its all a matter of taste as to which you really "want".

The XBow i believe is better for the short fights, like most trash and boss enoucnters now days [cept thing slike rag and nefe], while the slower bows excel on the longer fights, Nefe and the Hitpoint sink bosses.

Both would perform equally...if all thigns were equal :)

[Oakleh]

Poag needs a nerf!

I have 1512 self buffed rap (No pots, no buffs other than cast by self), and use the x-bow of smiting, 600+ top end damage, and I still don't get much over 2k6 on anything!

I reckon is the paladin infulence! Buff shamans!

[Ostronmcdole]

I've tried different versions of 0/21/30 (both heavily into traps and heavily into parry/deterrence). I used to have a 5/31/15 build, but since I was constantly put into groups with mages/warlocks etc... I scrapped TsA (a couple of months later rogues started whining about not getting it though). I'm considering respeccing again though, I've used 5/5 survivalist for a while, but becoming more experienced with encounters I manage to stay out of trouble. What I enjoy most about the survival build is surefoot and feign death. Surefoot means I can relax more on the %tohit on gear, and feign death actually makes a huge difference in mob intensive encounters in BWL, AQ40 and soon Naxxramas. A few months back, I tried clever traps and entrapment, but eventhough I enjoyed the increase length and damage of clever traps, entrapment seemed to be too bugged for my taste, so I changed to a parry/deterrence build. I also added counterattack for the flavour. Offcourse there's noway to actually prove it, but I believe that the few extra points put in parry and deterrence have saved me from some embarassing moments.

When it comes to damage wise, compared to the other hunters in my raidgroup, I'm far from the worst, I'm usually high up there, but due to very poor drop rate on Dragonstalker in BWL, only one imba xbow drop, I haven't really been able to increase my damage through gear for a while. I have however increased them by finding the best placement, pushing the limits of agro, boosting pet (got a wolf named Sofa with furious howl), and just generally becoming more experienced with the fights.

What buffs you recieve during a raid does matter. Rogues have been whining themself to get shaman totems and TsA, leaving most hunters without (I guess we don't whine enough), but those who get makes a big impression on the total damage throughout the raid.

I have 548 agility, 8% tohit (in important fights it's 9-10%) and 27.36% crit unbuffed, 1511 RaP with AotH, I do not have barrage nor RWS. I have gear to increase my critchance and tohit chance further by loosing agility/RaP.

My gear and talents: http://ctprofiles.net/2623

If some of my gear/talents/tactics seems abit awkward is because I'm a firm believer in individualism, and I'd hate to see all hunters end up identical except for racial abilities.